Was Buffy in love with Spike ? [par Miss Kitty]

Youhou, je me suis mise à l'Anglais sur mon LJ Je participe aussi un peu sur Buffy-Boards, et j'avais répondu à la fameuse question (*tousse* toujours inutile pour moi *tousse*) du Buffy aime t-elle Spike ? Du coup, je me suis éclatée à y répondre et comme j'en ai eu de bons échos malgré mon ignoble niveau en Anglais, j'ai fini par me décider de le mettre sur mon LJ Faut un début à tout, hein

Donc voilà, mon premier "essai" en Anglais : http://misskittydu34.livejournal.com/41884.html

Citation :

So, did Buffy love Spike ? YES, she was in love with him. I don't have any doubt when it comes to this topic. And I was convinced of this since season 6 anyway, but I won't develop it here, I only will focus on season 7.

I've read a lot of differents opinions and differents point of views on this question, in French, in English, and on differents forums, and all what I can say is : I think it came from a different definition/ vision of love. I promised to myself to not talk about B/A, because it's really not my favorite topic, but I think it's necessary, because it's a part of Buffy's love life and it has an impact.

To me, Spuffy and Bangel both happened in Buffy's life at differents periods ; her way of loving and expressing love were different. She grew, she became different after all what happened to her since season 5 more especially ; she became less and less expressive because of her past, because she became a woman, an adult, and she discovered life. Real Life. It's not always easy, she has responsabilities, she lost people she loves, she has a lot of bills, she needs to find a job, she takes care of a lot of potentials... I mean, she faces reality in the hardest way possible. Those elements change her. Because now, after the death of her mother, after her resurrection, she sees life differently, and she knows how much life can be hard. In consequence, her needs and her expectations change, including at a romantic level.

So, the biggest mistake done by most of the fans is when they try to compare these two kind of love, because we never love the same way at 16 and at 22. And she'll never be able to love again in the same way than she loved in the first three seasons. It has nothing to do with Angel, it has to do with who she is. It could be Spike, it could be Angel, Riley, Parker or Andrew, she'll never love with the same attitudes and emotional demonstrations than during the first three seasons. Simply because of who she is NOW. And that's a part of the reasons why I think that her relationship with Angel can't work at the end of the show, but I won't discuss about it right now.


So, concerning Buffy & Spike, I'm convinced like... 200000 % that she loves him and that she's in love with him. Because of the way she acts around him. Because of all the proofs of love she gives. She doesn't need to say it ; the viewer has to feel it and to see it. And there, it depends of what you think when it comes to the "real love" topic. To me, it's very simple, love is based on a level of reality. When you see the person you love as she/he is, when you're able to say "I love you" in despite of all the worst and the best you have seen of this person, to me, this is the most beautiful and most powerful thing ever. Because, let's face it, we all expect to be accepted and loved for who we are. And not being loved for an image of who we are. We have to be able to be ourself, in the best as in the worst, and being comfortable with this idea.

What I see on the Buffy & Spike relationship is a high level of trust and comprehension. They have the greatest dynamic and chemistry I ever seen on TV, they're able to have an argument, but they're also able to fight side by side and loving each other. That's real life ; a relationship doesn't have to be only about romance. Romance is just a (big) part of it, but it doesn't work in a long term without other elements. We never, never have to forget those importants elements which are trust, communication, ability to have an argument on the dumbest thing ever (as Buffy was saying in End of Days : "You're a dope" ; seriously, aren't they cute ?! ♥ ), comprehension, support, faith in each other...

I love how Marti Noxon talked about it by the time of season 6, because it fits totally with my point of view :

"The thing I keep saying is that it's not black and white. I'd love it to be, but it's not. To me, this is much more real. If these two crazy kids can make it work, it will be a lot more interesting than a kind of perfect romance with obstacles thrown in. To me, this is real life; this is people making their own problems. If they can get it together, that would be amazing. But it was never going to be easy." ~ Marti Noxon

THIS. It's all about a level of reality and credibility. It's not necessarily perfect, but the symbolic is stronger and more powerful.

And there's this quote from Six Feet Under :

"The true love is the person who makes you the most 'you' that you could possibly be. The person who forces your soul to grow the most."

Perfect. That's how I see it.


And when I see how Buffy acts when she's with Spike, I just see... love, love, love ! I won't talk about season 6 because it was more complex, but season 7 was A LOT clearer on this topic. Briefly, my opinion is : season 6 was the basis of her feelings for him. Season 7 was a development on a better emotional context.

Buffy is all about Spike in season 7. She helps him, she protects him, she believes in him, she trusts him (and almost only him), she defends him against everybody, she takes care of him, and yeah, she's in love with him. Giles sees this connection between them, and even the least concerned see it : the potentials, Wood, Faith, Anya...
They're together all the time and side by side. They're jealous and possessive when they see someone too close of each other. To me, there is an emotional engagement. Unspoken, but there. TOTALLY there.

So yeah, to me, Buffy was in love with him. She wasn't ready for saying it (look at her past, she had been hurt a lot of times), she had a lot of insecurities, but she *feels* it and she means it. All what she needed was time. But all the season 7 scream that she loves him. It's in their looks, in their gestures, their ways of acting around each other, their dynamic... Personnaly, one of my favorite Spuffy moment in season 7 is the moment at the beggining of First date, when they try to explain to Giles for the chip.

Side by side, additional, with the exchange of a lot of looks and their lovely ways of acting with each other... I just find it beautiful, touching and real, you know ? You just have to feel it. Full of love. It's as powerful as the "I love you" scene to me.

When a couple needs to be always all about romance and needs to say "I love you" an hundred times for convincing the viewers of this fact, the interest is totally gone, and I don't feel it... It sounds more superficial (like a very Hollywood thing), and at the end, these words and their romantic scenes lose their meaning. When love is there, words are not always necessary. One time is enough to a powerful meaning. We can see the rest on the attitudes and ways of being with each other, even in the most mundane moments. The relationship has to speak by herself.

We also can notice one thing (which had been noticed by a member of Buffy-Boards) : when she discusses with Angel in Chosen, she tells to him that her relationship with Spike is not his business. And she defends Spike, she admits in part how she feels about him when she said that "he's in her heart". And when we look at her discussion with Spike the moment after, it's different. She tries to minimize the meaning of her kiss with Angel. And the point is : she feels like if she has to justify it. She NEEDS to justify it. It seems natural. This ? It's a thing you do with the person you love...

For the "cookie" issue, I don't think that Buffy really sees her future. She's only 23 after all and she's a Slayer. She just lives on the moment (and she still has an idealization issue of her first love that she needs to fix). But when she came back to Spike's arms, when she chose him as her Champion, when she chose to spend her last moments with him, and probably wants making deeper her relationship with him after the battle, all her perspectives of future are with Spike.

And look at what she said in End of days when they speak about their feelings : "Maybe when...". Maybe when the battle will be over ? One thing is sure, the emotional engagement was there since a long time ago. And you don't act like this when you don't see yourself with this person. Buffy is just a very insecure person when it comes to her feelings.

It's really easy to promise an eternal love to a person you see one time by year. It's less easy to open yourself completely to someone you know and you see every day by your side, because you expose your weaknesses and you have to trust the person in front of you. The strengh of the symbolism is completely different.

In the first case, there's no emotional engagement. It's like when Buffy discusses with Holden Webster on Conversations with dead people (7x07) ; she talks a lot about her and her personal life, she talks about things that even the closest people to her don't know. But there's not real engagement ; she knows that Holden will die. It's just a parenthesis in her life. The real engagement is when you allow youself to do this with a person who is with you everyday.

Concerning now the "No, you don't", I don't have a definitive opinion about it. Sometimes, I think he believed her, but wanted make her leave the Hellmouth ; wanted see her living her life. In the shooting script, we have this :

Citation :

SPIKE
No you don't. But thanks for saying it.

A big quake rocks them. Spike pushes her away.


SPIKE (cont'd)
It's your world up there. Now GO!

"It's your world up there". He gives her the life she always wanted and deserved. And his reaction to Angel when he came back in ATS ("You got no idea what we had") tends to support this theory.


And sometimes, I think he doesn't believed her, because of his insecurities, and we know that there are many of this. Both of these theories are okay with me, because both of these theories are In Character from Spike POV. But one thing I'm sure of : he was wrong. I strongly disagree with those who think that he said it because it was a fact... I don't even understand it for being honest. Buffy loves him, if he doesn't believe it, it has nothing to do with how she feels. She loves him and she's proud of him.

So yeah, Buffy is in love with Spike. NO. DOUBT.

These two kids love each other and are made for each other, they just have to realize it. But when two persons are on the same level like they are, they're generally as much stupid as each other

Concretely, I love Spike's character as much as I love Buffy's character (even if, okay, I have a little crush on Spike, lol, but it's not really an argument). They're my two favorites characters of TV. But I'm totally in love with their relationship. And what I said above is my appreciation of their love. That's how I see it.